Daft Punk: Daft Plagiarists?
On the heels of the announcement that Daft Punk’s Alive 2007 is scheduled to drop in November of this year comes a few interesting revelations regarding their production methods and raises some questions about the “ethics” of production.
Kanye West’s new single “Stronger” features a sample from “Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger,” slowed down and rearranged as suitable backing material, a fact that’s easily recognized by anyone who’s familar with DP’s work. But in a strange, meta-twist, it turns out that KW is sampling a sample, and even self-referentially referring to the sample-sampling in his own lyrics:
…Do[es] anybody make real shit anymore?
Bow in the presence of greatness
Cause right now thou has forsaken us
You should be honored by my lateness
That I would even show up to this fake shit
So go ahead, go nuts, go ape-shit
Especially on my best stand, on my Bape shit
Act like you can’t tell who made this…
And what’s the sample being twice-over sampled? The hook from “Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger,” which was actually created by Edwin Birdsong. And that’s not the only instance of them appropriating a catchy hook and making it their own. Every Daft Punk track you can think of is from a funk or disco track from the 70s or 80s. The people at Palms Out Sounds have provided a thorough breakdown, but be aware, once you click that link your perception of Daft Punk will change.
As did mine, for the worse. After chatting with Peter from Create Digital Music about my feelings, he encouraged me to write about it for the online zine.
Sampling and remix culture is the future, right? Not if you ask a lot of music lovers at the moment. The guest for the CDM Random Rant of the Week is our friend Liz. It’s an issue I suspect has troubled some readers here, especially as music technology is equated to the sample/remix culture (especially if you believe Wired Magazine and we’re in the age of mash-ups.) Sure, tracks sampling other tracks is nothing new, but the legal battles over hip-hop aside, is there a backlash brewing? Do people want to hear something original, after all? And can Kanye, erm, speak truth to power with both the President of the United States and mysterious French electro duos? -PK
So have a read of my rant, and feel free to join in the following discussion:
Random Rant: Daft Punk: Daft Plagiarists?
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Um, sorry, this is one of the most misinformed and lazy posts I have ever read.
The sample from Harder, Faster is of the vocoderized vocals made exclusively by Daft Punk, not the underlying music made by Edwin Birdsong. Listen to the Edwin Birdsong samples then Kanye’s song and you’ll see he only sampled the Daft Punk vocals and their vocal melody which they invented themselves.
Plus people have hashed over the Daft Punk sampling thing for a few years and most have come to the conclusion that Daft Punk made quite catchy songs over samples–catchy songs that most of us couldn’t have made if we had used those samples ourselves. And all of those samples except for maybe one were credited openly in the Discovery booklet and Human After All booklet credits, just like in hip hop songs. No big secret there. Plus if you see their live show or videos of Alive 2007 performances you will get an idea of just how skilled they are at mixing parts of new and old songs and rearranging music in a highly entertaining, technical, and soulful way that most of us couldn’t do. Most of us aren’t selling out arena shows worldwide due to our mixing skills. So on the sampling question, no, there is not a lack of skill and originality when it comes to Daft Punk’s music in my opinion.
Here is the Kanye West video. The Daft Punk vocals are at the beginning. No sign of any Edwin Birdsong sample here, so no, Kanye isn’t “sampling a sample, ” and the hook wasn’t written by Edwin Birdsong. Please do your homework before posting in the future.
http://www.kanyewest.com/?content=video_stronger
September 1st, 2007 | #
a, I can see where you’re coming from, although the major impetus for this article was the meta-sampling. There’s a gray area around whose what was whoes’ and there’s no need to reiterate that particular point.
On the other hand, this discussion still seems to circumvent the issues at hand. When is sampling “”contextualization” (with consent) and when does it become a ripoff?
I think this aspect of the discussion is really key. A, I think you need to re-define your terms: What is “skilled” if you’re borrowing an entire hook as opposed to a (heavily processed, granted) note? How does that re-appropriation affect you as a re-composer?
Help me out here: where *is* that line between self-aware reference and “copping a hook”?
I’m curious, so please enlighten me.
September 2nd, 2007 | #
I’ve always loved Daft Punk, and I was totally down with their early days sampling of Disco cuts like Karen Young’s Hot Shot. It was so creative, and it made for a bangin’ house track.
However, when Human After All came out, I felt a little differently about things. How do you take a track like Release the Beast (not that well known) and add a little here and there to it and call it an original. Granted, Tommy Sunshine has practically made a career out of throwing a drum kick and a bass synth to songs and calling it a day for his remix work. Robot Rock is basically a Release the Beast dub mix rework. I really think they should call it just that. Does Tittsworth try to hide the fact that many of his tracks are remixes? Of course not, and in many cases he actually mixes it up more than on Robot Rock.
Daft Punk are, however, extremely talented in their mixing, and should be given props for that. Their lives shows are off the hook. They really should step it up a notch, though, and go back to taking smaller samples and creating great tracks from those.
On the other side of this coin, of course, is Andy Warhol. Can we appropriate these sounds for our own use while barely changing their content and context? I wonder.
September 21st, 2007 | #
TO SETTHERECORD STRAIGHT. KANYE WEST DID SAMPLEA SAMPLE. THE ORIGINAL POST IS RIGHT ON THE MONEY. I am Edwin Birsongs nephew. I have copy and pasted the official ASCAP records of the song STRONGER by Kanye West, which anyone can find on the net.
STRONGER (Title Code: 494911414)
Writers:
BANGALTER THOMAS
BIRDSONG EDWIN
DE HOMEM CHRISTO GUY-MANUEL
WEST KANYE
Performers:
(none found)
Variations:
(none found)
Publishers/Administrators:
W B MUSIC CORP
% WARNER BROS INC
(WARNER BROS MUSIC DIV)
Contact ASCAP Clearance representative at (212)621-6160
for other publisher information.
October 2nd, 2007 | #
[…] I am going to tell you how Kanye West made “Stronger.” I am not going to get into rather he sampled a sample, but if you want some reading information about that check out this blog. […]
October 17th, 2007 | #
I already knew they did that, but I don’t care because it just means they took 5 second clips of shitty songs and turned it into the biggest thing since the invention of fire.
November 23rd, 2007 | #
This is the inevitable backlash that comes with the knowledge that Daft Punk are indisputably the best live Dance act of all time. There really isnt any sense debating that fact,so lets move along from there.
Everytime a ‘next big thing’ comes along , naysayers duly follow. For anyone who knows anything about music, Daft Punk have been one of the genres superpowers since Da Funk (no sample credited fyi). Palmsout sounds have taken it upon themselves to try to burst the Daft bubble single-handedly. For those in the know, their senseless prattling is easily ignored, but its when others start spouting the hacks rubbish as gospel that we have a problem. For every correct sample Palmsout quoted, they had another 3 or 4 that were completed unfounded. Just because a song sounds even the remotest bit similar to an older song DOES NOT mean that the former sampled the latter.
Sampling is nothing to be ashamed of in most cases- will.i.ams appalling attempt to cash in on Around the World,Stronger,Daft Punk and Wests hard work excepted of course. Its as much a part of music now as echos,fading in/out,scratching or any other technological devices.Build a bridge and get the f*ck over it.
December 17th, 2007 | #